Epigenetics refers to changes in DNA. Trauma can cause activation and deactivation of genes and other changes. Those changes manifest as chronic disease, lower IQ and shorter lifespan. Intergenerational transmission of trauma refers to environmental issues like parenting styles, abuse and neglect being passed from one generation to the next. These two phenomena often occur at the same time but are two different mechanisms. 

Hi Ingrid. Thank you! I find the differentiation confusing because my understanding is that trauma from environmental issues like abuse and neglect, causes changes in the DNA (thus epigenetics); a  traumatic "imprint"  on the DNA  is transmitted generation to generation. 

Both epigenetic and "wire together/fire-together" changes can be inter-generational, as can *skills deficits* that are passed along, too-- which can be quite bad on their own!   If you can't self regulate, you won't co regulate your baby, and they then won't self regulate either. 

That's intergenerational encoding too though possibly not epigenetically.... except insofar as unregulated stress itself causes changes.

I don't think he disagreed as much as he didn't think it was worth addressing, in context of our conversation. I'm pretty much a science geek and love exploring the interplay between behavior, personal and social, and how it affects and is affected by gene expression. But yesterday's conversation was focused on other things.

Victoria...it's not so much an imprint as it is a series of interconnected settings. They can be passed on, but those settings can change, depending on what's happening in the person's social and physical environment, and so they also may not be passed on.

Keep in mind. van der Kolk got fired from Harvard for junk science and more recently, from JRI, for bullying (traumatizing) his staff. I was there when that happened. He will attack those who disagree with him- men remotely, women in person. Here is the results of a google scholar search on the subject. I'm a psychologist trained in marriage and family therapy.  For decades, before epigenetics was considered a legitimate science, psychiatrist and family therapists, such Murray Bowen, have taught about intergenerational transmission of symptoms. 

@Jane Stevens posted:

Victoria...it's not so much an imprint as it is a series of interconnected settings. They can be passed on, but those settings can change, depending on what's happening in the person's social and physical environment, and so they also may not be passed on.

That makes sense. Thanks!

Michael. Thank you for the reminder and all the resources. 

This was a fascinating discussion! Thank you so much for asking, Victoria!

https://www.sciencedirect.com/...ii/S030645302030202X

The early intergenerational family therapists (Bowen with anxiety, Normal Paul with grief, Framo with object relations and Ivan Boszormenyi-Nagy with reciprocity and loyalties) focused on psychosocial adaptations, not altered genetics, to explain transgenerational transmission of symptoms.  They would have been laughed at if they did- the scientific inquiry was not there. We know know that stress and trauma affect the substance of life- DNA. Exposure can damage telomeres, the end caps of the DNA strands (chromosomes) where genes are located.

How chronic stress is harming our DNA

https://www.apa.org/monitor/2014/10/chronic-stress

Stress, Aging, and Telomeres

https://www.stress.org/stress-aging-and-telomeres

Telomere Shortening and Stress

https://www.azolifesciences.co...ning-and-Stress.aspx

Early-Life Stress Affects Telomeres Later

https://www.the-scientist.com/...elomeres-later-32742

There is increasing evidence that subsequent generations are affected.

@Jennifer Sweeney posted:

This was a fascinating discussion! Thank you so much for asking, Victoria!

Thanks Jennifer! 

@Victoria Burns posted:

Hi Ingrid. Thank you! I find the differentiation confusing because my understanding is that trauma from environmental issues like abuse and neglect, causes changes in the DNA (thus epigenetics); a  traumatic "imprint"  on the DNA  is transmitted generation to generation. 

Yes, trauma can be one of the causes of epigenetic changes but it’s not the only cause. Literally anything in the environment can cause epigenetic changes. Also epigenetic changes can be positive and negative. 

Fascinating discussion here that reviews many thorough and important resources. I'd like to humbly add my own voice to the conversation via a link to my book: Survivor Cafe: The Legacy of Trauma and the Labyrinth of Memory. It includes a wide range of explanations and examples that might be helpful as well.

@elizabeth thank you 🙏

They say never meet your heroes. Why? Because human beings are flawed and will always slide off those pedestals we create for them. I know a well-respected female mental health professional who once had an awful experience with Bessel. She met him after the JRI split and says he is changed. She forgives him. If she can, I think we should extend towards him kindness and the possibility of change - isn't that the heart of being trauma-informed?

I have never read anything as insightful as The Body Keeps the Score. Let's give credit where it is due. This is what he'll be remembered for, not the outworkings of his own trauma that hurt people. 

Talking of credit where it's due, thank you Michael for these amazing resources that must have taken you a lot of time to reproduce here. Like Jane, I'm a science nerd and will enjoy reading them. 

And Victoria, you are right - it is not just trauma but all kinds of environmental things that cause epigenetic changes. 

Thank you for the interesting read, everyone. So glad to be part of this community.

Lou

van der Kolk was never a hero of mine. I had low expectations of him before I met him- he lived down to them.

hmnn....I've always had great respect for those who help in healing folks via their research, writing and sharing, etc.  I value what folks bring to the table and ever mindful that we are all flawed human beings, so I don't have the hero worship for anyone. It takes a lot of work to keep one's ego in check, whatever field you are in. Coming from the music world, no shortage of ego's and I have witnessed it here in the trauma, abuse, mental health arena as well.

I do respect those who have come through hell and back, I have long felt that those marginalized, held down and hurt in life are the unsung heroes of life. My times spent with fellow trauma and abuse survivors in support groups, hospitalizations, day treatment programs, peer support centers, etc, do fit the definition of being a hero for surviving great obstacles in life. At least in my mind they are.

I do respect Bessell van der Kolk for what he has brought to the table...and I have known those who are his detractors and those who think highly of him. I don't know him, but can attest to what he did for helping a small nonprofit group, The NH Incest Center,  I was involved with many years ago in the mid 90's to the early 2000's.  Our main way of raising funds was having well known speakers come in and share their works with their peers, psychologists, psychiatrists, therapists, etc. Dr. Bessell van der Kolk and Dr. Anna Salter both came and spoke for free...and I have long remembered how they engaged with us, the survivors...with great respect and took any and all phone calls from those of us involved in putting on these events. Other well known folks also came and spoke at reduced fees enabling our little group to raise awareness, advocate and support survivors with resources and help keep the lights on for our little office in Concord, NH.

I respect van der Kolk and Judith Herman's destigmatizing of borderline personality disorder- which was, and still is, over-diagnosed in especially women who have significant trauma histories. His contention that CBT (with 30-plus varieties) is ineffective in ludicrous. He engages in cherry-picking of research (what is known to people like myself, with years of training as a scientist-practitioner knows as "confirmation bias"). I could go into a lot more, but there is ongoing litigation and as a person from a family full of attorneys, I'm not going into any details on their advice.  I've never said van der Kolk made no contributions. I'm saying a New York Time's bestseller does not meet the rigors of science. I wlth stating that I was socialized with the value that the custodian deserves as much respect as a Nobel winning scientist. How we treat others is a great indicator of the contents of our soul. van der Kolk's contention that the relational aspects of therapy are insignificant says more about him, than the reams of extant research to the contrary.